In the post-mortem of its Wednesday night town hall with former President Donald Trump, CNN was in full spin mode Thursday. In an editorial meeting with staff, big boss Chris Licht both praised and defended the night.
“You do not have to like the former president’s answers,” Licht reportedly told staff, “but you can’t say that we didn’t get them.”
Oh they got them all right: more lies about the 2020 election, revising history over the Jan. 6 insurrection, lying about the border wall, snarky remarks about the woman a civil trial jury said he sexually assaulted. Those were just the highlights (or lowlights) of the 70-minute town hall that played like a Trump rally.
Trump surely chalked it up as a great night. CNN as a company, and Licht especially, tried to too. But this was a disaster from the start to finish. The lone highlight was moderator Kaitlan Collins, who tried her best but ultimately was buried under an avalanche of Trump lies and a starstruck audience that could not have been more supportive of the former president.
That’s one of the things that caught me off guard Wednesday night: the reaction of the crowd. I anticipated a more neutral audience, or at least one that was skeptical of Trump. Instead it was a very pro-Trump crowd, and that made Collins’ work as moderator all the more difficult.
I thought Collins did an admirable job. She was prepared and constantly pushed back when the former president started his lie-fest.
But whenever she might have had him on the ropes, Trump was bailed out by the crowd. They cheered him, and laughed with him, and you can see that they emboldened him. Once Trump realized that the audience was entirely on his side, it gave him the freedom to do and say whatever he wanted, knowing full well that despite her best efforts, Collins was not going to be able to stop him.
The New York Times’ Shane Goldmacher and Maggie Haberman wrote that the audience “built momentum for him,” adding, “No matter how vulgar, profane or politically incorrect Mr. Trump was, the Republican crowd in New Hampshire audibly ate up the shtick of the decades-long showman.”
CNN can spin this however it likes, but the reality is Trump was Trump and CNN gave up more than an hour of primetime to let him say whatever he felt like saying.
Licht can suggest that this gives Americans a look into the Trump playbook for his 2024 presidential campaign. But didn’t we already have the playbook? Did anything happen Wednesday night that was surprising or new or newsworthy?
Perhaps if Wednesday was a blueprint for anything, it can be used as a cautionary tale for what happens when you put Trump on the air. As if we didn’t already know, Wednesday proved what could happen when dealing with someone who doesn’t play by the rules.
Trump lied, misled, didn’t directly answer policy questions and skated his way through an hour-plus interview, so to speak, without willing to be held accountable for anything.
A CNN spokesperson said, “Kaitlan Collins exemplified what it means to be a world-class journalist. She asked tough, fair and revealing questions. And she followed up and fact-checked President Trump in real time to arm voters with crucial information about his positions as he enters the 2024 election as the Republican frontrunner. That is CNN’s role and responsibility: to get answers and hold the powerful to account.”
But not counting Collins, CNN was heavily criticized, even by those at the network.
One unnamed CNN journalist told Vanity Fair’s Charlotte Klein and Joe Pompeo, “This will not come as a shock, but I don’t know anyone who was happy with (Wednesday) night. The mood is absolutely the lowest it’s been in the Licht tenure, and that’s saying a lot.”
Another staffer told The Washington Post’s Jeremy Barr, “Total debacle.”
CNN media reporter Oliver Darcy started his Wednesday night newsletter by writing, “It’s hard to see how America was served by the spectacle of lies that aired on CNN Wednesday evening.”
As a part of his call with staffers, Licht reportedly said, “While it might’ve been uncomfortable to hear people clapping in response to some of the president’s answers, that audience represents the views of a large swath of America. The mistake the media made in the past is ignoring that they exist. Just as you cannot ignore that President Trump exists. The idea of doing so is (an) overcorrection of a time when nets took campaign rallies lives.”
Licht said that he was aware of the backlash CNN was getting, “(but) there is so much that we learned (Wednesday) night of what another Trump presidency” might look like.
Again, was anyone unaware of Trump or that Trump had dedicated supporters? Did Americans really need Wednesday night to show them what another Trump presidency might look like? Wednesday offered nothing new.
What does this do for CNN?
The night was a ratings success for CNN. The town hall averaged 3.308 million total viewers. — easily outdistancing Fox News (1.446 million) and MSNBC (1.398 million). The key 25- to 54-year-old demo averaged 781,000, about five times higher than normal for CNN at that time slot.
But as media reporter and former CNN staffer Brian Stelter noted, “… these are not 2015/16 level numbers for Trump — not even close.”
So who was tuned in?
We don’t know for sure, but we can speculate. Many, certainly, were fans of Trump. Some were regular CNN viewers. Others likely tuned in just to see what would happen.
Again, this is speculation, but it’s doubtful that a one night appearance of Trump will turn Trump supporters into new and regular CNN viewers. And regular CNN viewers might have been turned off by Trump’s appearance.
So if CNN was hoping that having Trump on would lead to a permanent uptick in viewers, Wednesday night could end up backfiring and lead to a decrease in viewership. The backlash from inside and, especially, outside of CNN could have a much longer lasting impact than the one night bump.
But Licht has no regrets, apparently. According to The New York Times’ Michael M. Grynbaum and Benjamin Mullin, He reportedly told staff, “We all know covering Donald Trump is messy and tricky, and it will continue to be messy and tricky, but it’s our job. I absolutely, unequivocally believe America was served very well by what we did last night. People woke up, and they know what the stakes are in this election in a way that they didn’t the day before. And if someone was going to ask tough questions and have that messy conversation, it damn well should be on CNN.”
What about Collins?
There are a few outliers, but Collins mostly is getting good reviews for her role as moderator.
It’s good timing for Collins. Puck’s Dylan Byers reports that Collins will be the choice to fill CNN’s open 9 p.m. Eastern slot. That valuable primetime hour has been open since CNN fired Chris Cuomo in December 2021.
Collins has gone from covering the White House for CNN to co-hosting the recently revamped morning show. But “CNN This Morning” is in turmoil after CNN recently fired one of its co-hosts, Don Lemon.
Collins’ star was obviously on the rise before Wednesday’s town hall, and her hour-plus dealing with Trump under near-impossible conditions showed she has the stuff to handle a primetime gig.
Other voices regarding the CNN town hall with Trump
- Podcaster and writer for The Atlantic Jemele Hill tweeted, “CNN got exactly what it wanted out of the Trump town hall — ratings, buzz and a bat signal to conservative viewers that their views are now more welcomed. It’s heartbreaking and destructive for journalism and democracy, but it was a win for the network in every way.”
- Hmm, here’s an interesting headline on a column from The Washington Post’s Marc A. Thiessen: “For Republicans, Trump’s town hall was a dumpster fire.” Thiessen wrote, “This town hall should be a wake-up call for the GOP. Trump has not learned a thing from his 2020 defeat. He has not developed the message discipline he lacked as president. He has not figured out that the path to another term is not simply energizing his base with red meat, but expanding his base by convincing persuadable swing voters to support him. There was zero effort Wednesday night to win over anyone who is not already with him.”
- The New York Times’ Shane Goldmacher and Maggie Haberman reported that while Trump’s comments about Jan. 6 (“a great day”) and overturning of Roe v. Wade (“a great victory”) and several other answers might play well with his base, it could be used against him, too. The Times’ reporters wrote, “Late Wednesday, the Biden campaign was already figuring out what segments could be turned quickly into digital ads, seeing Mr. Trump staking out positions that would turn off the kind of swing voters that Mr. Biden won in 2020.”
- Politico’s Jack Shafer with “Enough With the Bellyaching Over CNN’s Trump Town Hall.”
- Read this thought-provoking Twitter thread from journalist/podcaster Kara Swisher.
- Finally, a fun number provided by The Athletic’s Richard Deitch. While CNN averaged 3.1 million viewers for the Trump town hall, the NCAA women’s college basketball championship game last month between LSU and Iowa on ABC averaged 9.9 million viewers. And if you want to compare cable to cable, the women’s semifinal game between Iowa and South Carolina on ESPN averaged 5.5 million and the other semi between LSU and Virginia Tech, also on ESPN, averaged 3.4 million.
For the rest of today’s newsletter, here are media news, tidbits and links for your weekend review …
Cecilia Vega is shown here reporting on her first story as a “60 Minutes” correspondent. (Courtesy of CBS News)
- Cecilia Vega makes her debut as a correspondent for CBS’s “60 Minutes” on Sunday. Her story is “The Sperm Whales of Dominica,” which is about one of the largest animals in the sea being at risk because of noise pollution, ship strikes and plastic trash. Here’s a teaser.
- Matea Gold has been named managing editor of The Washington Post. She replaces Steven Ginsberg, who left last year to become executive editor of The Athletic. The Washington Post’s Elahe Izadi reports that in her new role, Gold will oversee several departments, including National and Metro. Izadi adds that Gold “joins the masthead alongside two other managing editors — Justin Bank and Krissah Thompson — and senior managing editor Cameron Barr.” Gold spent 17 years at The Los Angeles Times before moving to the Post in 2013. She has most recently been in charge of the Post’s National department.
- For what it’s worth, Twitter boss Elon Musk tweeted Thursday, “Excited to announce that I’ve hired a new CEO for X/Twitter. She will be starting in ~6 weeks! My role will transition to being exec chair & CTO, overseeing product, software & sysops.” The Wall Street Journal’s Jessica Toonkel, Suzanne Vranica and Alexa Corse reported Thursday evening that NBCUniversal’s head of advertising Linda Yaccarino is in talks to become the new CEO of Twitter.
- Awesome story in The New York Times by Connie Wang with photographs by Connie Aramaki on what it’s like to be named after journalist Connie Chung in “Generation Connie.”
- My Poynter colleague Kelly McBride talked with Robert Samuels and Toluse Olorunnipa after they won a Pulitzer Prize for their book about George Floyd. “We had a really big purpose.”
- A must-read story ahead of Mother’s Day. You might need a subscription to see it. The Philadelphia Inquirer’s Alex Coffey with “Preston Mattingly felt helpless as his mother battled alcoholism. Here’s how they discovered her ‘second life’ together.”
- The Ringer’s Alan Siegel with “Want to Know What TV Loses Without Writers? Just Look at 2007.”
- Wall Street Journal sports columnist Jason Gay with “I Can’t Believe How Fast a Baseball Game Feels in 2023.”
More resources for journalists
- Subscribe to Poynter’s Friday newsletter, Open Tabs with Poynter managing editor Ren LaForme, and get behind-the-scenes stories only available to subscribers.
- Editorial Integrity and Leadership Initiative — (Sept. – April, 2024) (Hybrid) — Apply by May 15.
- Lead With Influence (July 2023) (Seminar) — Apply by June 2.
Have feedback or a tip? Email Poynter senior media writer Tom Jones at tjones@poynter.org.
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