Everyone knew that Vice President Kamala Harris was stepping into unfriendly territory when she agreed to an interview on Fox News earlier this week. But many, including me, thought it was the right thing to do, especially because I assumed the interviewer, Bret Baier, would handle the interview with professionalism and journalistic integrity.

Turns out, Harris not only was walking into unfriendly territory, it was downright hostile. Baier badgered Harris with Republican talking points, asked her tough questions (which was fair), and asked her some unreasonable questions (which was unfair).

But worst of all, Baier constantly interrupted Harris, cutting her off and often talking over her. Several times, he put out his hand, almost as a stop sign to signal that she needed to stop, even though Harris was answering.

That was the immediate reaction following Wednesday night’s interview that various media outlets described as “tense,” “confrontational,” “contentious” and “combative.”

The New York Times’ Michael M. Grynbaum wrote after the interview, “Vice President Kamala Harris may not get another debate with former President Donald J. Trump, but on Wednesday, she got one with Bret Baier.”

Grynbaum added, “Mr. Baier’s aggressive demeanor was consistent with the kind of tough coverage of Ms. Harris that blankets Fox News’s daily programming.”

So, a day later and upon further review, what was the reaction? Pretty much the same.

On Thursday’s “Morning Joe,” co-host Willie Geist said, “It goes without saying that Donald Trump would not be given the same treatment, talked over, not allowed to finish those questions. It doesn’t mean the topics weren’t fair. There was a lot in there that viewers wanted to hear from Kamala Harris. Why do you have different positions now than you did in 2019? How are you going to fix the immigration crisis? All fair, fair questions. But Donald Trump obviously would never be treated that way on Fox News.”

Actually, that’s true.

CNN’s Brian Stelter went back and compared Baier’s style while interviewing Harris and, last year, Trump. Stelter noted that Trump was asked some tough questions (and I remember praising Baier at the time), but Stelter also wrote, “Baier was more animated when questioning Harris, as if he knew that Fox’s conservative base wanted to see her squirm in her seat. Overall, Baier interrupted Harris at least 38 times in 27 minutes, about twice as often as Baier interjected with Trump (at least 28 times in 36 minutes).”

Stelter also looked at Baier’s opening questions for Trump and Harris. The first Trump question was a softball: “What do you think is the most important issue facing the country right now?” His first question of Harris was way more aggressive: “How many illegal immigrants would you estimate your administration has released into the country over the last three-and-a-half years?”

Stelter commented, “What a striking difference. With Trump, he warmed up his subject, tried to make Trump comfortable. With Harris, he went for the jugular right away.”

“Morning Joe” co-host Mika Brzezinski really blasted Baier, saying, “It was supposed to give viewers an opportunity to actually hear her plans as president. Instead, as you saw, it almost immediately devolved into an embarrassing, bad-faith effort by a once-respected host to play to an audience of one. The host’s constant rude interruptions were designed to distract from the issues and facts that Trump and his acolytes try to twist and distort every day, and on Fox News they try to avoid. And they couldn’t.”

Brzezinski added, “When Kamala Harris realized the host was not going to let her speak, the only way the Vice President could give Fox viewers an opportunity to hear what she had to say was to talk back over him. Was he making sure that happened? I personally think absolutely. Did she do well in this environment? Of course, she was great. She’s a former prosecutor, attorney general, senator, current vice president. She’s fine with a situation like that and even flourishes. Yet there were times she was shaky on answers about immigration. He kept coming after her. But the questions sounded like they came from a Trump campaign ad. In fact, they played a Trump campaign ad in the interview.”

Speaking on CNN, Stelter said, “She essentially walked into a Trump campaign field office because anchor Bret Baier, who is, you know, a solid journalist, he is also incredibly sympathetic to Trump because that’s what his fans want. That’s what his viewers want. His viewers want him to represent the Trump point of view. So, it was almost as if you had a Trump surrogate interviewing Kamala Harris.”

Again, let’s be clear here. There is nothing wrong with tough questions. But they need to be fair and, most importantly, they need to be answered. And far too often, Harris was not afforded the opportunity to answer them.

Stelter told CNN host Kaitlan Collins, “Adversarial interviews are a good thing. We should root for them. We should want more of them. You know, you’re so fantastic at adversarial interviews where we challenge newsmakers and we get the answers out of them. But yes, this was a Rorschach test. Some people think Baier was mansplaining. Other people think Harris was filibustering. I think at the end of the day, this is all about one word. The word ‘tough.’ It showed that Harris was tough. She went into the so-called Fox den, and that’s how Harris’s campaign’s promoting it.”

It’s true that Harris did seem to hold her own throughout the interview. And, as soon as it was over, Baier defended his interview while his Fox News colleagues patted him on the back. Check out this insightful conversation from The Washington Post’s Erik Wemple, Chris Suellentrop, politics editor for Post Opinions, and Slate’s Josh Levin, host of the podcast “Slow Burn: The Rise of Fox News.”

Levin noted, “It is funny that he immediately went into the spin room and Harris left.”

Suellentrop said, “Baier closed his show by complaining that he didn’t get to ask all his questions. This feels like the reverse of when a politician complains about the debate moderators. I don’t think a journalist can lose an interview. If his goal was to butter up a few of those Fox News superfans by a ritual display of toughness, I can see why he was disappointed.”

Counterpoint

In all fairness, I should include one person who had high praise for Baier and his interview with Harris: Donald Trump. The former president posted a long message on social media that started with, “Great job by Bret Baier in his Interview with Lyin’ Kamala Harris.” He added, “Again, congratulations to Bret Baier on a tough but very fair interview, one that clearly showed how totally incompetent Kamala is.”

So, yeah, at least one person thought Baier did a good job. You have to ask: Is that the one opinion Baier and Fox News cared the most about?

Tuned in

Fox News drew strong viewership numbers for the Harris interview. The network announced that 7.8 million viewers tuned in, according to Nielsen Media Research. That made it the most-watched TV interview that Harris has done this campaign.

Harris’ first exclusive interview, which included running mate Tim Walz, on CNN with Dana Bash drew 6.3 million viewers. Harris’ recent interview on “60 Minutes” had 5.7 million viewers. And Harris’ interview with MSNBC’s Stephanie Ruhle had 1.8 million viewers.

In addition, “The View” had 3.1 million viewers for its show with Harris, and  2.9 million tuned in to watch her appearance on CBS’s “The Late Show with Stephen Colbert.”

The man in front of the big map

Episode three of The Poynter Report Podcast drops on Monday and it’s my interview with Steve Kornacki, the national political correspondent for NBC News and MSNBC.

You know him this time of year, breaking down elections with his rolled-up sleeves and khaki pants and his notes rolled up in his hands.

We talk about how we should look at polling before the election, how Kamala Harris’ late entry into the race impacted his job, and which state could get interesting on election night.

I’ll have more in Monday’s newsletter, but be sure to listen to the podcast when it drops next week. And, if you get a chance, give it a good rating and a review — it really helps us continue bringing in great guests to talk about the media.

Amazon and politics

Former NBC and MSNBC anchor Brian Williams in New York City on Tuesday. (Charles Sykes/Invision/AP)

The streaming service Amazon Prime Video will have live news coverage on Election Day and a familiar face will be in the anchor chair.

Former “NBC Nightly News” anchor Brian Williams will anchor Amazon’s election coverage starting at 5 p.m. on Nov. 5.

In a statement, Williams said, “After 41 years in the business — from local news to network shows to cable news — this feels like the next big thing. And the global marketplace of Amazon is a natural home for this first-of-its-kind venture. Together we will follow the storyline on election night wherever it leads us.”

Williams remains a respected name in broadcast journalism. He was the anchor of “Nightly News” from 2004 to 2015 until he was forced out for having embellished his experiences covering the Iraq War. But he eventually worked his way back to host his own nightly show on MSNBC.

Then, in 2021 at the age of 62, Williams walked away from that job. Most expected he would eventually return somewhere else, but he has laid low until this Amazon announcement.

For now, this is a one-night-only news event from Amazon. But could this lead to more news coverage?

The New York Times’ Nicole Sperling wrote, “Mr. Williams’ show will be seen as a test case to determine the streaming giant’s interest in live news.  The company has spent the last few months expanding its offerings of live sports. The company has had the rights to the NFL’s ‘Thursday Night Football’ and recently paid $1.8 billion for the rights to a slew of NBA games.”

However, Variety’s Brian Steinberg wrote, “People familiar with the matter have cautioned against viewing the Williams project as a sign that Amazon intends to start producing news programming on a regular basis. And yet, the digital giant does seem to be dipping its toes into the format after spending months building a presence in sports that includes the NFL’s ‘Thursday Night Football,’ and, soon, regular NBA telecasts.”

Meanwhile, The Wall Street Journal’s Gareth Vipers wrote, “The election special shouldn’t be seen as a sign that Amazon is now looking to have a regular presence in original news content, The Wall Street Journal previously reported.”

As far as the election night special, Williams won’t be doing it alone. He will be joined by pundits and news analysts. Some of those names should be announced shortly.

The show is expected to rely on election results from another party, such as The Associated Press and/or Reuters.

Serving the audience

I wanted to call your attention to the latest NPR Public Editor column from my Poynter colleagues. Kelly McBride writes about NPR covering fears of a fraudulent election.

But I also wanted to direct you to the second half of the column where Poynter’s Nicole Slaughter Graham writes, “What role does public media play during a public safety crisis?” It’s specifically about the job WUSF in Tampa did before, during and after two hurricanes hit Florida in a span of less than two weeks.

WUSF news director Mary Shedden told Graham something interesting: that the station turned down interviews with local political candidates.

Shedden said, “We’re actually avoiding people running for office if at all possible, quite honestly because there is, I mean, we’re so close to an election. There’s a political spin angle to a lot of what’s going on from both sides.”

Shedden added that’s not what the community needs right now.

And now for more media news, tidbits and interesting links for your weekend review …

• NewsNation will host a town hall with Republican vice presidential candidate JD Vance next Thursday at 8 p.m. Eastern. NewsNation’s Chris Cuomo will moderate the hourlong town hall from Detroit. But note that it will air exclusively on the social media platform X.
• Read this story! Superb work from NBC News’ Brandy Zadrozny with “The Pipeline. How Russian propaganda reaches and influences the U.S.”
• Super cool interactive piece from The Verge: “2004 was the first year of the future.”
• Axios’ Sara Fischer with “Google will block election ads after polls close.”
• On “The Daily Show,” Lewis Black asks how in the world can anyone possibly be an undecided voter at this point.
• Los Angeles Times columnist Amy Kaufman with a profile: “At 41, Andrew Garfield is questioning everything: ‘I don’t know where my calling is.’”

More resources for journalists

• Are you an upcoming-and-coming newsroom manager?
• Lead With Influence is for leaders who manage big responsibilities but have no direct reports.
• Encourage an outstanding colleague to apply for Leadership Academy for Women in Media.

Have feedback or a tip? Email Poynter senior media writer Tom Jones at tjones@poynter.org.

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