As analysts pick apart the election results, one thing seems certain: Podcast appearances have become a necessary part of presidential campaign strategy.
Dubbed the first “podcast election” by some, the 2024 presidential campaign cycle saw both former President Donald Trump and Vice President Kamala Harris make appearances on popular shows. Trump in particular largely eschewed traditional media, giving interviews not to journalists, but comedy podcast hosts like Joe Rogan and Andrew Schulz.
“This is really the first election where people are watching to see what podcasts they (the candidates) go on,” said Ariel Shapiro, a journalist who has covered the podcast industry for several years, most recently at The Verge. “They’re paying attention to this in the same way that they would have paid attention to an interview on 60 Minutes.”
The shows Trump and Harris chose have immense audiences. Trump appeared on three of the top five most listened-to podcasts on Spotify — “The Joe Rogan Experience,” the “Shawn Ryan Show” and “This Past Weekend with Theo Von.” His interview with Rogan alone has garnered more than 46 million views on YouTube. Meanwhile, Harris gave an interview to Alex Cooper, host of “Call Her Daddy,” the fifth most popular podcast on Spotify.
These shows are notable in that they aren’t necessarily political or focused on current events, Shapiro said. “A lot of them are comedy shows or just chat shows, and so this is a way for them to reach people who are not seeking out election-related content.”
Trump made much more extensive use of podcast appearances than Harris — Forbes tallied at least 13 — and many of those shows count large numbers of young men among their listenership. That was one of the demographics Trump made inroads with this election cycle; more than half of men between 18 to 29 voted for him, according to The Associated Press.
It’s impossible to say how much of an effect, if any, Trump’s podcast appearances had on his victory. But those in his circle are certainly giving them credit. X owner and billionaire Elon Musk told conservative commentator Tucker Carlson on Tuesday that appearances by Trump and his running mate, Sen. JD Vance, on “lengthy podcasts” made a “big difference.” Early Wednesday, after Trump gave his victory speech, Ultimate Fighting Championship CEO Dana White thanked “the Nelk Boys, Adin Ross, Theo Von, ‘Bussin’ With The Boys,’ and last but not least, the mighty and powerful Joe Rogan.”
“I do want to make sure that we do not oversell the impact of podcasting. We do know that it was present. It’s either too early or we’ll never really know the extent to which somebody said, ‘I heard him on X, therefore I will vote for him,’” said Nicholas Quah, a Vulture critic who covers the podcasting industry. “But there is something to be said about the sheer presence and the nature of his presence on these outlets.”
For political candidates, interviews with podcasters come with benefits beyond exposure to millions of voters. They are relatively easy to do and allow candidates to target specific audiences. Podcast hosts sympathetic to a candidate’s views may offer less pushback during the interview than a traditional journalist would. And the interviews, which can stretch for hours, offer more opportunities for candor, allowing listeners to come away feeling as if they’ve really gotten to know the candidate.
“The thing that Trump did with these appearances is that he ‘hung out’ very well with the hosts and therefore created this sort of feeling of fraternity,” Quah said. “There’s a certain affinity that develops when you hang out with a podcast guest host for a very long time.”
University of Sussex professor of podcasting and creative media Martin Spinelli pointed out that many people consume podcasts using earbuds, inviting a level of intimacy that other forms of media, including radio, do not achieve.
“The voice of the other person is inside your body. It’s a very, very intimate experience. That kind of intimacy is really, really good at triggering emotions,” Spinelli said. “Especially around the kind of populist, fear-based politics that is having a moment … podcasting is uniquely positioned to trigger emotions among an electorate.”
Regardless of the effect podcasts had on the 2024 election, experts agree that they will continue playing a role in future campaign cycles. Candidates will almost certainly incorporate podcast appearances into their media tours. After all, more than 100 million Americans listen to a podcast at least once a week, according to Edison Research.
“More and more people are engaging with the world through podcasting,” Spinelli said. “It would be a mistake for future campaigns to ignore or neglect podcasting as a vehicle for their candidates and their messages.”
After Trump’s victory, some conservative figures claimed that mainstream media is now irrelevant. Musk told his followers on X, “You are the media now.” And conservative commentator Matt Walsh proclaimed, “Legacy media is officially dead.”
Shapiro said that she doesn’t believe the U.S. has reached the point where candidates can completely disengage from traditional media. People still watch television and listen to terrestrial radio even though audiences for both are declining. Shapiro pointed out that the first presidential debate, between Trump and President Joe Biden, was televised and subsequently reshaped the race.
Still, the shift to podcasts continues the trend of politicians — especially Republicans — avoiding mainstream media and instead disseminating information either through social media or partisan outlets.
Experts said that so far, they’ve mostly seen candidates on the national level use podcasts in this strategic way. “The way the internet works is that it’s inherently national, it’s inherently international,” Quah said. But he noted that regional companies are popping up, like City Cast, which produces local podcasts and newsletters.
“I don’t live in Portland, Oregon, but I listen to the ‘City Cast Portland’ a lot, and they basically interviewed every mayoral candidate that was running in this cycle,” Quah said. “And I know people who live in Portland who listen to that show, and they’re making choices based on that show.”
The podcast space itself has shifted in recent years. A medium that used to be defined by leftist shows like Crooked Media and news shows from National Public Radio and its emulators has given way to an ecosystem of more right-wing and libertarian content, including the “manoverse” podcasts that Trump appeared on.
Where podcasting goes from here is yet to be seen, but Shapiro said that she is keeping an eye on Rogan, who has an “outsized” impact within podcasting due to his popularity. Rogan has largely positioned himself as a heterodox, “free thinker” who is willing to have guests across the political spectrum on his show. However, the day before the election, he endorsed Trump.
“What does that mean in terms of creators getting into the space? Are you going to see even more right-wing creators get into the space? Are you going to have more right-wing listeners, maybe even older ones who don’t necessarily engage with podcasting? Are they going to start listening to podcasts because more of the kinds of people they want to listen to are there?
“Rogan is also well known for changing his mind, so this could be a totally different conversation in six months or a year,” Shapiro said. “But I would be really, really curious to see how the space develops.”
